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	<title>Comments on: lockbox</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.sondrakistan.com/2011/06/15/lockbox/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.sondrakistan.com/2011/06/15/lockbox/</link>
	<description>Don&#039;t just do something...STAND THERE!</description>
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		<title>By: Tom Servo</title>
		<link>http://www.sondrakistan.com/2011/06/15/lockbox/#comment-13717</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Servo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 17:14:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sondrakistan.com/?p=6381#comment-13717</guid>
		<description>Claire,

I believe the keys remain with the property owner&#039;s property, in a lock box. The only people with access to the box is the fire department. Firefighters are the main advocates for it, not bureaucrats. It just makes responding to fire alarms faster and easier. 

Of course, quick &#039;n easy doesn&#039;t trump constitutional rights. I just suspect the handful of business owners in the video likely have other, ongoing gripes with this city council.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Claire,</p>
<p>I believe the keys remain with the property owner&#8217;s property, in a lock box. The only people with access to the box is the fire department. Firefighters are the main advocates for it, not bureaucrats. It just makes responding to fire alarms faster and easier. </p>
<p>Of course, quick &#8216;n easy doesn&#8217;t trump constitutional rights. I just suspect the handful of business owners in the video likely have other, ongoing gripes with this city council.</p>
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		<title>By: Claire: dirty, dirty wingnut</title>
		<link>http://www.sondrakistan.com/2011/06/15/lockbox/#comment-13714</link>
		<dc:creator>Claire: dirty, dirty wingnut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 16:55:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sondrakistan.com/?p=6381#comment-13714</guid>
		<description>Tom Servo - Helping citizen volunteers is quite a different matter.  They did not demand it and I imagine they are well-known members of the Citizenry.

OTOH, having a Gubbmint Entity &lt;i&gt;demand&lt;/i&gt; that Citizens give up their rights/keys is an intrusion of a different color.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom Servo &#8211; Helping citizen volunteers is quite a different matter.  They did not demand it and I imagine they are well-known members of the Citizenry.</p>
<p>OTOH, having a Gubbmint Entity <i>demand</i> that Citizens give up their rights/keys is an intrusion of a different color.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Servo</title>
		<link>http://www.sondrakistan.com/2011/06/15/lockbox/#comment-13703</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Servo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 15:57:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sondrakistan.com/?p=6381#comment-13703</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve used lock boxes in my township for years and no one has complained. The aim is to avoid having to take the time and effort to break into a building when a fire alarm has been set off. 

Of course, our firefighters are citizen volunteers. They&#039;re donating their time and there&#039;s a desire not to make their task more lengthy and difficult. I guess if there was ever resistence to it, the mandate would be dropped. But for now property owners agree with it.

I think there are some other issues in Cedar Falls that are driving this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;ve used lock boxes in my township for years and no one has complained. The aim is to avoid having to take the time and effort to break into a building when a fire alarm has been set off. </p>
<p>Of course, our firefighters are citizen volunteers. They&#8217;re donating their time and there&#8217;s a desire not to make their task more lengthy and difficult. I guess if there was ever resistence to it, the mandate would be dropped. But for now property owners agree with it.</p>
<p>I think there are some other issues in Cedar Falls that are driving this.</p>
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		<title>By: scottw</title>
		<link>http://www.sondrakistan.com/2011/06/15/lockbox/#comment-13616</link>
		<dc:creator>scottw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 23:47:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sondrakistan.com/?p=6381#comment-13616</guid>
		<description>@vonster:   I really don&#039;t give a flying F@#$ that the &quot;fears have not been born out there&quot;.  It is the F&#039;ing principle of the matter.  At no time should a local, state, or federal gov. entity be allowed to dictate/force any citizen to relinquish a measure of security.  It is a huge can of worms that once one or two smaller locales pass these types of mandates that the larger ones will follow and the laws will expand to private property, homes, vehicles, etc,,,etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@vonster:   I really don&#8217;t give a flying F@#$ that the &#8220;fears have not been born out there&#8221;.  It is the F&#8217;ing principle of the matter.  At no time should a local, state, or federal gov. entity be allowed to dictate/force any citizen to relinquish a measure of security.  It is a huge can of worms that once one or two smaller locales pass these types of mandates that the larger ones will follow and the laws will expand to private property, homes, vehicles, etc,,,etc.</p>
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		<title>By: vonster</title>
		<link>http://www.sondrakistan.com/2011/06/15/lockbox/#comment-13612</link>
		<dc:creator>vonster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 22:54:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sondrakistan.com/?p=6381#comment-13612</guid>
		<description>The City of Peoria (IL) mandated that businesses do this - provide keys in a mounted lock-box out of reach of anyone without a ladder - for fire protection purposes and we have not had any problems with it, despite the initial resistance.

I understand the fears but they haven&#039;t born out here....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The City of Peoria (IL) mandated that businesses do this &#8211; provide keys in a mounted lock-box out of reach of anyone without a ladder &#8211; for fire protection purposes and we have not had any problems with it, despite the initial resistance.</p>
<p>I understand the fears but they haven&#8217;t born out here&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: apotheosis</title>
		<link>http://www.sondrakistan.com/2011/06/15/lockbox/#comment-13580</link>
		<dc:creator>apotheosis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 19:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sondrakistan.com/?p=6381#comment-13580</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Query: will his insurance change if he puts a key on the outside of his store?&lt;/i&gt;

Excellent question.  And I never did hear an answer to whether the city would be liable if anyone got hold of those keys and did something unauthorized with them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Query: will his insurance change if he puts a key on the outside of his store?</i></p>
<p>Excellent question.  And I never did hear an answer to whether the city would be liable if anyone got hold of those keys and did something unauthorized with them.</p>
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		<title>By: Claire: dirty, dirty wingnut</title>
		<link>http://www.sondrakistan.com/2011/06/15/lockbox/#comment-13576</link>
		<dc:creator>Claire: dirty, dirty wingnut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 19:25:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sondrakistan.com/?p=6381#comment-13576</guid>
		<description>Moar: &lt;blockquote&gt;Land… cannot be treated as an ordinary asset, controlled by individuals and subject to the pressures and inefficiencies of the market. Private land ownership is also a principal instrument of accumulation and concentration of wealth and therefore contributes to &lt;b&gt;social injustice&lt;/b&gt;; if unchecked, it may become a major obstacle in the planning and implementation of development schemes. The provision of decent dwellings and healthy conditions for the people can only be achieved if land is used in the interest of society as a whole.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.unhabitat.org/downloads/docs/3566_45413_HS-733.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;*PDF warning*&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moar:<br />
<blockquote>Land… cannot be treated as an ordinary asset, controlled by individuals and subject to the pressures and inefficiencies of the market. Private land ownership is also a principal instrument of accumulation and concentration of wealth and therefore contributes to <b>social injustice</b>; if unchecked, it may become a major obstacle in the planning and implementation of development schemes. The provision of decent dwellings and healthy conditions for the people can only be achieved if land is used in the interest of society as a whole.</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.unhabitat.org/downloads/docs/3566_45413_HS-733.pdf" rel="nofollow">*PDF warning*</a></p>
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		<title>By: Claire: dirty, dirty wingnut</title>
		<link>http://www.sondrakistan.com/2011/06/15/lockbox/#comment-13568</link>
		<dc:creator>Claire: dirty, dirty wingnut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 18:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sondrakistan.com/?p=6381#comment-13568</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;&lt;b&gt;International&lt;/b&gt; Fire Code&lt;/i&gt;&quot;??!?!
ah. I C.

So, Mr Public Safety.  What&#039;s your current record on &lt;i&gt;unnecessary&lt;/i&gt; door breaking-downs?  Got a little problem there, do ya?  No?  So what&#039;s yer goal, then?

It strikes me that the folks at that meeting were being &lt;i&gt;entirely&lt;/i&gt; too reasonable with those bureau-klownz.  Ya can&#039;t fight bs logyk with rational debate. [and that was the biggest pile of pseudo-reasoning and straw-man scare tactix I&#039;ve seen since the last County meeting I went to]

 What they need is a short, sharp reminder that they are the hired help and an advisory to seek other employment.
&quot;What the hell is worng with you?!?&#039;
&quot;NO.  We&#039;re not doing that.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;<b>International</b> Fire Code</i>&#8220;??!?!<br />
ah. I C.</p>
<p>So, Mr Public Safety.  What&#8217;s your current record on <i>unnecessary</i> door breaking-downs?  Got a little problem there, do ya?  No?  So what&#8217;s yer goal, then?</p>
<p>It strikes me that the folks at that meeting were being <i>entirely</i> too reasonable with those bureau-klownz.  Ya can&#8217;t fight bs logyk with rational debate. [and that was the biggest pile of pseudo-reasoning and straw-man scare tactix I've seen since the last County meeting I went to]</p>
<p> What they need is a short, sharp reminder that they are the hired help and an advisory to seek other employment.<br />
&#8220;What the hell is worng with you?!?&#8217;<br />
&#8220;NO.  We&#8217;re not doing that.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: John A</title>
		<link>http://www.sondrakistan.com/2011/06/15/lockbox/#comment-13565</link>
		<dc:creator>John A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 18:37:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sondrakistan.com/?p=6381#comment-13565</guid>
		<description>One council member said that the proposal would not require these on homes like his and if it had he would not have voted for it. My guess - he does not have his own business, own rental property, or work in a lockable office. Oh, and does not have an apartment. 
 
All this so the Fire Department does not have to break down a door, especially for what may be a false alarm? As one business owner said, insurance covers that. Query: will his insurance change if he puts a key on the outside of his store?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One council member said that the proposal would not require these on homes like his and if it had he would not have voted for it. My guess &#8211; he does not have his own business, own rental property, or work in a lockable office. Oh, and does not have an apartment. </p>
<p>All this so the Fire Department does not have to break down a door, especially for what may be a false alarm? As one business owner said, insurance covers that. Query: will his insurance change if he puts a key on the outside of his store?</p>
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		<title>By: PeggyU</title>
		<link>http://www.sondrakistan.com/2011/06/15/lockbox/#comment-13554</link>
		<dc:creator>PeggyU</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 17:38:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sondrakistan.com/?p=6381#comment-13554</guid>
		<description>Kamyar What&#039;s-his-name should go back to whatever country he came from and get a refresher course on why he left it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kamyar What&#8217;s-his-name should go back to whatever country he came from and get a refresher course on why he left it.</p>
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