of mouse guns and men

If you shoot me with a .25 ACP,
and I find out about it,
I’m gonna be pissed!


~ vid ~
Yeah, this is a palate cleanser after 9/11.
Love this old video.

mech

(What? Of course I’m not gonna leave it that. I thought you knew me better.)

Finish your assignment! »

Over-genaralizations:
• Anything under .380 ACP — mouse gun. Suitable for assassinations at head-contact range. For defense? Yeah, the assailant may die, but that may not be for a half hour after he stabs you.
• .380, 38spl, & 9mm — adequate, if you get multiple hits in vital areas. Not one-shot “stoppers.”
• Single-action loading-gate revolver (e.g. the .44mag shown) — stopper. Rapid-fire and reloadable under fire? Nnnn, not so much. (Cowboy action shooters will disagree.)
• Shoulder holster — excellent for seated position, but requires a jacket and practice to keep left arm out of the way of the muzzle. Do not use one that points up, as in the fillum.
• Softer holsters are okay, if you have lots of time to safely re-holster (cops don’t). You wouldn’t carry a snaggy handgun for defense, anyway.
• “Didn’t spoil the line of the jacket.” Select/tailor the clothes to the rig. You likely can’t carry wearing trim attire.
• His draw? Keep your free hand against your body. Shooting your flailing hand is undesirable. Practice … a lot.
• The pistol he used to light the match — a French air pistol. I used to have one while I was stationed in the UK, since they wouldn’t let me shoot my Browning Hi-Power. Have pellet holes in my couch to prove it.
• The rifle he mentioned as used in From Russia With Love was an AR-7 (I think), which is .22 LR — small-game survival rifle. Probably requires a head shot against man-sized animals. If it was an old USAF-issue AR-5, that was a .22 Hornet which was much more powerful.
• “A ladies gun, and not a very nice lady at that.” *snick* … but a lady who has a chance.

Me? I carry a small .380 (belt) or a .38 snubbie (pocket) in polite society or a .45 ACP (belt) in injun country, plus a reload, all with HydraShock or GoldDot hollowpoints. 12-ga pump in the house, with #1 buck. I’m buildin’ a short double-bbl as a trenchcoat lap gun for the porch rockin’ chair. *spit*swig*

Okay, how wrong am I?

25 Comments!

  1. mojo
    Posted September 12, 2011 at 2:22 pm |

    The AR-7 was the old collapsible .22LR that fit into the stock, wasn’t it? My old man used to have one, kept it in his pickup in case he was stuck somewhere and needed to shoot a rat or a gopher. Snake, too, probably. Anything man-sized or better, forget it.

  2. Posted September 12, 2011 at 2:35 pm |

    I don’t see a whole lot that I disagree with. “If you shoot me with a .25 ACP, and I find out about it, I’m gonna be pissed!” My Old Man was an Arizona Ranger, and one of his people was shot in the back of the head by one at about ten yards…… Gave him a hell of a headache, but it didn’t penetrate.

    .45 1911, you’re stopped and can easily be shot multiples of times, but as you say, that’s for ‘Injun’ country.

    .380 on my ankle at most times, fine little gun when used properly.

    Long distance, my personal fave is my Dragunov 7.62×54.

    And hey, don’t count out the .22′s, I bout the newer GSG-5 and it is a sweetheart! Large game….stick with bigger, but still a very decent addition…

  3. Alan outback bacon czar
    Posted September 12, 2011 at 2:49 pm |

    I carry a H&K .380 in an inside the belt holster, or shoulder holster if I’m wearing a jacket. If not that, I carry a .38 S&W “Bodygaurd”, same holster choices,

    BTW, my brother-in-law, who is also a retired police officer, had a double homicide with both victims shot once with a .25 at about twenty feet.

  4. Alan outback bacon czar
    Posted September 12, 2011 at 3:17 pm |

    Fatal .25 vics were shot in the neck.

  5. Old Bull 55
    Posted September 12, 2011 at 3:25 pm |

    From a defensive point of view, anything that could put a hole in a human body is better than nothing. Ive seen people killed with calibers from .22,25,38,45,12 ga, 223 and 7.62×39 (ak) from short and long distance (drivebys) That being said, I like carrying compact .45′s Over the years, HK, Beretta and when I retire (Very soon! TG!) I may look into Sigs….. The main reason is…. .45 cal doesnt need to expand to make a big hole and cause the “hydraulics” to leak quickly. My .25 cents (adj. for inflation)

    aka Boarshide

  6. Alan outback bacon czar
    Posted September 12, 2011 at 3:40 pm |

    I’ve killed all of mine with a 9MM.

  7. Colonel Jerry USMC
    Posted September 12, 2011 at 3:44 pm |

    My all time fav is a 20mm gatling gun, conceal-carried in a Hornet. I won a shootin contest once; 250 rounds hit out of 500 fired–at a 45 degree angle//400 knot target. Blood, cold for best grouping of hits—

  8. blindshooter
    Posted September 12, 2011 at 3:47 pm |

    I have .380′s for pocket carry(I have “pocket” holsters) and .45′s (officers model and full size) in all manor of carry. I prefer to carry the .45′s OWB as high as I can with a shirt or coat but if all I can do is the little gun at least it’s there. The shoulder rig is a limited option, I see too many ways for me to screw up with that set up. That coming from someone who carries a pistol in his pants pocket…….

  9. Alan outback bacon czar
    Posted September 12, 2011 at 3:51 pm |

    I think, given the two choices, I’d rather shoot myself in the armpit.

  10. Posted September 12, 2011 at 4:04 pm |

    I prefer the old P-38 army issue folding can opener to slowly rip their throat out with. Plus, when you’re done you can open a can of beans and have a party right there.

    But that’s probably just me.

  11. SherryM
    Posted September 12, 2011 at 4:24 pm |

    I like My 9mm, but at one time for I had a J22 a cheepo 22lr that sold for 60$ new. it was cheep but it was fun to shoot and you could shoot all day on a brick of 22s. Got to the point that I could get all 6 shots in a 1 inch area from 25 feet. I wore that thing out to the point that would start going off like a fully auto.

    Very much like Mine.
    http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/021_2_.jpg

  12. MCPO
    Posted September 12, 2011 at 4:31 pm |

    I like a double action revolver. .38

  13. Paul
    Posted September 12, 2011 at 4:32 pm |

    Generally the lower the power of the handgun the more accurate you must be to get a stopping hit (if that can be reliably done with any pistol cartridge.)

    Sadly as the power of the round goes down so usually does the size of the weapon, size of the sights, and ability of getting a good consistent trigger pull.

    See the .25 acp can stop if it hits the brain but usually the guns are so small and have such crude sights (not to mention trigger pull) they defeat your ability to shoot that accurate except for touching distance shots.

    And if you try to stuff alot of power in such a small piece you then find it uncontrollable, which again defeats ones goal of a decent hit (or hits.)

    And then add the need to draw and shoot fast in low light while the other guy is shooting at you, or moving, or both, and you can see why so many people miss, especially if they are surprised.

    And yes guys, I shoot alot, and it’s just about all with the view of self defense.

  14. AZHolmes
    Posted September 12, 2011 at 4:44 pm |

    Hey Wollf,

    Your dad was an Arizona Ranger? Now that’s cool!

  15. Merovign
    Posted September 12, 2011 at 5:26 pm |

    People over-estimate the importance of caliber as a magic number – they’re all weak. BUT ammunition selection matters more.

    A *given* 9mm bullet may be more or less effective than a *given* 45ACP… speed, energy, weight, material… I’ve got gentle 45 ball ammo and I’ve got 9mm’s that nip at the heels of the legendary 125-grain .357 Magnum.

    Placement is more important than design and energy, design and energy are more important than caliber.

    That *all* being said there is a basic truth to what he said, most things below .380 ACP are not what I’d bet my life on – I like 10mm Auto myself (though admittedly what I have would not easily be concealed for a small person in a bathing suit or anything). I have carried large-frame autos concealed in casual clothes.

    Best thing is to do your homework – which bullets are more effective at what velocity, how much velocity you’ll lose or gain from barrel length or porting, etc. Or know someone who knows these things. :)

  16. dick not quite dead white guy
    Posted September 12, 2011 at 5:39 pm |

    Agree on, have .38 snubbie for pocket and 1911 for belt, and want to add a .380. Recommendations?

    Col. J. – How does your ‘concealed carry’ do in a mall food court when the gun toting flash mob arrives? Sell the movie rights yet?

    A serious question – I’ve read the A-10 guys love their gun. How do the F/A-18 and other fighter drivers feel about their guns? I haven’t heard how pilots feel about the integral 20mm. Is it something they practice with often, take pride in using skillfully, or is it just tolerated as a useful last resort accessory if a dogfight gets really tight?

  17. Posted September 12, 2011 at 6:05 pm |

    AZ….. Captain thereof. Tucson Sector, back when the Rangers were, well, Rangers.

  18. Fat Baxter
    Posted September 12, 2011 at 6:06 pm |

    When I carry, it’s usually a S&W 642 snubbie loaded with 138 grain Gold Dots. Usually in a pocket holster, sometimes an ankle holster.

    For home defense, I’m trying to find something in a belt-fed 12 gauge….

  19. Colonel Jerry USMC
    Posted September 12, 2011 at 9:58 pm |

    The machine gun fills in the 2000 ft circle around the bogie. also good for strafing an airdrome and killing personel. IS the most fun to use, period!!!!!!

  20. logdogsmith
    Posted September 13, 2011 at 6:41 am |

    Knowing how to employ your weapon of choice, ability to employ, and the willingness to do so are much more important than weapon choice, as the comments here indicate.

  21. SteveHGraham
    Posted September 13, 2011 at 8:02 am |

    I hope all of those bad old guns have been confiscated and melted down by now.

  22. Posted September 13, 2011 at 11:33 am |

    For the house, 12-gauge loaded with low-recoil Ranger 00 buck; if I could find some #1 or #4 buck in the low-recoil load, I’d probably go to that.

    Usual carry, either a officer’s model 1911 or .380 pocket; picked up a Ruger LCP a couple of years ago. Bad thing is the looong trigger pull; good thing is it’s very flat and light; stick a laser sight on it and helps with the problem of the almost-nonexistent sights.

    Mind you, I learned handguns with revolvers, and would have no problem carrying one for SD

  23. Alan the outback bacon czar
    Posted September 13, 2011 at 2:09 pm |

    For the house I have a cut down double barrel 12 gauge, with #2 buck.

  24. bigviking
    Posted September 13, 2011 at 5:41 pm |

    Beretta Jet-fire 950 .25 ACP for carry. Tactical T-shirt can draw from standing or sitting. 9 in the gun, two extra mags =25 Speer Gold Dot 35.
    12 Ga. 00 Remington 870 7 in tube and 1 in chamber 18″ barrel, nite light and tactical sling with 18 rounds.
    Claymores on the porch for all those Tea Party zombies…LOL….
    24″ battle axe if things get really close…..

  25. bigviking
    Posted September 14, 2011 at 12:49 pm |

    Hickock45 demostrates my “Home Defense” system…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSOXWwbXGCg&feature=uploademail