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	<title>Comments on: the &#8220;T&#8221; word surfaces</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.sondrakistan.com/2012/05/08/the-t-word-surfaces/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.sondrakistan.com/2012/05/08/the-t-word-surfaces/</link>
	<description>Don&#039;t just do something...STAND THERE!</description>
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		<title>By: mech</title>
		<link>http://www.sondrakistan.com/2012/05/08/the-t-word-surfaces/#comment-50434</link>
		<dc:creator>mech</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2012 03:20:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sondrakistan.com/?p=21323#comment-50434</guid>
		<description>The most immediate concern is to remove him and his minions from power in all branches of the government, then the rest can be considered by independent investigators and prosecutors. 

If many of them were to fatally slip on a bar of soap, catch a meteorite in the noggin, stop a falling ice sickle or ACME anvil from the sky, my feelings wouldn&#039;t be hurt.

Regardless, they should be stocking up on their asbestos skivvies, there are higher courts to be answered to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most immediate concern is to remove him and his minions from power in all branches of the government, then the rest can be considered by independent investigators and prosecutors. </p>
<p>If many of them were to fatally slip on a bar of soap, catch a meteorite in the noggin, stop a falling ice sickle or ACME anvil from the sky, my feelings wouldn&#8217;t be hurt.</p>
<p>Regardless, they should be stocking up on their asbestos skivvies, there are higher courts to be answered to.</p>
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		<title>By: Ironic in Denver</title>
		<link>http://www.sondrakistan.com/2012/05/08/the-t-word-surfaces/#comment-50425</link>
		<dc:creator>Ironic in Denver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2012 02:00:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sondrakistan.com/?p=21323#comment-50425</guid>
		<description>One more time:

http://theblacksphere.net/wp-content/uploads/Obama-in-jail.jpg

Bingo!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more time:</p>
<p><a href="http://theblacksphere.net/wp-content/uploads/Obama-in-jail.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://theblacksphere.net/wp-content/uploads/Obama-in-jail.jpg</a></p>
<p>Bingo!</p>
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		<title>By: Ironic in Denver</title>
		<link>http://www.sondrakistan.com/2012/05/08/the-t-word-surfaces/#comment-50424</link>
		<dc:creator>Ironic in Denver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2012 02:00:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sondrakistan.com/?p=21323#comment-50424</guid>
		<description>Okay, a serious try now:

http://www.pics-site.com/wp-content/uploads/Lindsay-Lohan-in-Jail-4.jpg

Okay, still not Pelosi, but starting to look like her anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, a serious try now:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.pics-site.com/wp-content/uploads/Lindsay-Lohan-in-Jail-4.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.pics-site.com/wp-content/uploads/Lindsay-Lohan-in-Jail-4.jpg</a></p>
<p>Okay, still not Pelosi, but starting to look like her anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Ironic in Denver</title>
		<link>http://www.sondrakistan.com/2012/05/08/the-t-word-surfaces/#comment-50423</link>
		<dc:creator>Ironic in Denver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2012 01:58:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sondrakistan.com/?p=21323#comment-50423</guid>
		<description>Okay let&#039;s try again:

http://ll-media.tmz.com/2010/07/06/0706-lindsay-lohan-bn-jail.jpg

Dang, missed again. But closer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay let&#8217;s try again:</p>
<p><a href="http://ll-media.tmz.com/2010/07/06/0706-lindsay-lohan-bn-jail.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://ll-media.tmz.com/2010/07/06/0706-lindsay-lohan-bn-jail.jpg</a></p>
<p>Dang, missed again. But closer.</p>
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		<title>By: Ironic in Denver</title>
		<link>http://www.sondrakistan.com/2012/05/08/the-t-word-surfaces/#comment-50422</link>
		<dc:creator>Ironic in Denver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2012 01:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sondrakistan.com/?p=21323#comment-50422</guid>
		<description>Corrupt politicians in jail, an illustrated guide:

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/24000/Jail-Uniforms-24115.jpg

Ooops.... that was supposed to be Nancy Pelosi &amp; Valerie Jarrett. How could I have gone that wrong?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Corrupt politicians in jail, an illustrated guide:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/24000/Jail-Uniforms-24115.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/24000/Jail-Uniforms-24115.jpg</a></p>
<p>Ooops&#8230;. that was supposed to be Nancy Pelosi &amp; Valerie Jarrett. How could I have gone that wrong?</p>
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		<title>By: Ironic in Denver</title>
		<link>http://www.sondrakistan.com/2012/05/08/the-t-word-surfaces/#comment-50421</link>
		<dc:creator>Ironic in Denver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2012 01:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sondrakistan.com/?p=21323#comment-50421</guid>
		<description>^ Doug, I&#039;ve got no quarrel or difference with you on any substantive point about this matter. 

It&#039;s just that I want to know, pragmatically speaking, how to bring constitutional retribution to some of these assholes that is so painful that it will be a lesson to others.

In any case, I hope Republican congressional committees are investigating them ad nauseam from here till 2020, and that something with legal penalties can be found to apply to some of them. This would not be the first corrupt administration (or congress, I suspect) where people not only sweated but went to prison for a lengthy time. 

I&#039;m not so much into neocon grassrooters emoting in meetings as I am seeing the wicked hauled off in handcuffs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>^ Doug, I&#8217;ve got no quarrel or difference with you on any substantive point about this matter. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s just that I want to know, pragmatically speaking, how to bring constitutional retribution to some of these assholes that is so painful that it will be a lesson to others.</p>
<p>In any case, I hope Republican congressional committees are investigating them ad nauseam from here till 2020, and that something with legal penalties can be found to apply to some of them. This would not be the first corrupt administration (or congress, I suspect) where people not only sweated but went to prison for a lengthy time. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not so much into neocon grassrooters emoting in meetings as I am seeing the wicked hauled off in handcuffs.</p>
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		<title>By: DougM (jackassophobe)</title>
		<link>http://www.sondrakistan.com/2012/05/08/the-t-word-surfaces/#comment-50417</link>
		<dc:creator>DougM (jackassophobe)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2012 01:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sondrakistan.com/?p=21323#comment-50417</guid>
		<description>Sigivald (9) Ironic (11)
There are more definitions of treason than the specific crime stated in the Constitution. Being a traitor, in the wider sense, needn&#039;t be a crime per Constitution or statute. Betraying one&#039;s countrymen isn&#039;t necessarily a crime, but it can be.

I didn&#039;t say that violating the Constitution was a crime (although I believe it is, since the Constitution declares itself to be the ultimate law of the land). I said that governmental action outside the Constitution was illegitimate and that anyone who intentionally ruled outside the Constitution was illegitimate, dictatorial, and treasonous (broader definition as betraying one&#039;s countrymen). 

To dismiss the Constitution without using the Constitutional process to do so is overthrowing the government by unconstitutional means. That certainly &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; a crime.

Those who hold government office swore a Constitutionally mandated oath to uphold the Constitution. If they knowingly intended, plotted, conspired, or acquiesced to ignore, usurp, or illegitimately change it, then they have committed a crime. (They are also subject to citizens&#039; righteous retribution outside the law, in my mind.)

The FedGov has no legitimate existence outside the Constitution. It is not a state of nature or a creation of God. It was created by the people and the States at the stroke of a pen, the Constitution. 

If the FedGov fails to abide by the Constitution by acting outside its specified authority, if it fails to fulfill its duties, or if it dismisses the Constitution as a binding contract, then it becomes illegitimate. If it exercises power without the consent of the people, then it is a tyranny, pure and simple. The States and the people then have the right to form a new government (see: Declaration of Independence).

If the FedGov will not be bound by the Constitution, then neither are the States nor the people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sigivald (9) Ironic (11)<br />
There are more definitions of treason than the specific crime stated in the Constitution. Being a traitor, in the wider sense, needn&#8217;t be a crime per Constitution or statute. Betraying one&#8217;s countrymen isn&#8217;t necessarily a crime, but it can be.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t say that violating the Constitution was a crime (although I believe it is, since the Constitution declares itself to be the ultimate law of the land). I said that governmental action outside the Constitution was illegitimate and that anyone who intentionally ruled outside the Constitution was illegitimate, dictatorial, and treasonous (broader definition as betraying one&#8217;s countrymen). </p>
<p>To dismiss the Constitution without using the Constitutional process to do so is overthrowing the government by unconstitutional means. That certainly <em>is</em> a crime.</p>
<p>Those who hold government office swore a Constitutionally mandated oath to uphold the Constitution. If they knowingly intended, plotted, conspired, or acquiesced to ignore, usurp, or illegitimately change it, then they have committed a crime. (They are also subject to citizens&#8217; righteous retribution outside the law, in my mind.)</p>
<p>The FedGov has no legitimate existence outside the Constitution. It is not a state of nature or a creation of God. It was created by the people and the States at the stroke of a pen, the Constitution. </p>
<p>If the FedGov fails to abide by the Constitution by acting outside its specified authority, if it fails to fulfill its duties, or if it dismisses the Constitution as a binding contract, then it becomes illegitimate. If it exercises power without the consent of the people, then it is a tyranny, pure and simple. The States and the people then have the right to form a new government (see: Declaration of Independence).</p>
<p>If the FedGov will not be bound by the Constitution, then neither are the States nor the people.</p>
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		<title>By: Ironic in Denver</title>
		<link>http://www.sondrakistan.com/2012/05/08/the-t-word-surfaces/#comment-50410</link>
		<dc:creator>Ironic in Denver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2012 00:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sondrakistan.com/?p=21323#comment-50410</guid>
		<description>Sigivald (9): As it happens, I&#039;ve been thinking about this a little already. I&#039;m not qualified to do so, but did anyway.

It&#039;s my suspicion that in our legal system violating the Constitution isn&#039;t a prosecutable crime unless a law has been passed that criminalizes whatever unconstitutional act is in question. 

It&#039;s true that the President and at least some of his appointees swore an oath to uphold the Constitution, and that they have instead frequently expressed, in a practical sense, contempt for it, and have very likely violated their oaths. I&#039;m not sure that&#039;s a criminal offense either; where is there a law forbidding doing this and stipulating a legal penalty? 

I&#039;m wondering whether anyone actually has a legal liability for Fast and Furious? On what grounds? Sure it&#039;s outrageous, and I&#039;d like to see every soul involved living out their days in a Federal maximum security prison, but I&#039;m not sure there&#039;s any &lt;em&gt;legal&lt;/em&gt; grounds for it. I&#039;m hoping that some of the financial shenanigans of the current administration might be prosecutable, but I&#039;m not filled with hope even for this....

...might also look into the violation of official secrets, but it will be hard to prosecute successfully.

Perhaps someone with a legal education might like to weigh in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sigivald (9): As it happens, I&#8217;ve been thinking about this a little already. I&#8217;m not qualified to do so, but did anyway.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s my suspicion that in our legal system violating the Constitution isn&#8217;t a prosecutable crime unless a law has been passed that criminalizes whatever unconstitutional act is in question. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s true that the President and at least some of his appointees swore an oath to uphold the Constitution, and that they have instead frequently expressed, in a practical sense, contempt for it, and have very likely violated their oaths. I&#8217;m not sure that&#8217;s a criminal offense either; where is there a law forbidding doing this and stipulating a legal penalty? </p>
<p>I&#8217;m wondering whether anyone actually has a legal liability for Fast and Furious? On what grounds? Sure it&#8217;s outrageous, and I&#8217;d like to see every soul involved living out their days in a Federal maximum security prison, but I&#8217;m not sure there&#8217;s any <em>legal</em> grounds for it. I&#8217;m hoping that some of the financial shenanigans of the current administration might be prosecutable, but I&#8217;m not filled with hope even for this&#8230;.</p>
<p>&#8230;might also look into the violation of official secrets, but it will be hard to prosecute successfully.</p>
<p>Perhaps someone with a legal education might like to weigh in.</p>
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		<title>By: Colonel Jerry USMC</title>
		<link>http://www.sondrakistan.com/2012/05/08/the-t-word-surfaces/#comment-50405</link>
		<dc:creator>Colonel Jerry USMC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 23:42:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sondrakistan.com/?p=21323#comment-50405</guid>
		<description>Okay, I say we charge him, try him, execute him and THEN apologize!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, I say we charge him, try him, execute him and THEN apologize!</p>
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		<title>By: Sigivald</title>
		<link>http://www.sondrakistan.com/2012/05/08/the-t-word-surfaces/#comment-50397</link>
		<dc:creator>Sigivald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 22:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sondrakistan.com/?p=21323#comment-50397</guid>
		<description>Article III, Section 3: &lt;i&gt;Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. &lt;/i&gt;

Governing outside the Constitution is bad, it&#039;s wrong, it&#039;s probably (under some statute) criminal - and should be if it ain&#039;t.

But it&#039;s not treason, according to &lt;i&gt;the Constitution itself&lt;/i&gt;, which I think matters a lot, when the Constitution is the core of the offense, no?

It is, indeed, the law - but breaking its legal contract is &lt;i&gt;not treason&lt;/i&gt; - it says so itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Article III, Section 3: <i>Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. </i></p>
<p>Governing outside the Constitution is bad, it&#8217;s wrong, it&#8217;s probably (under some statute) criminal &#8211; and should be if it ain&#8217;t.</p>
<p>But it&#8217;s not treason, according to <i>the Constitution itself</i>, which I think matters a lot, when the Constitution is the core of the offense, no?</p>
<p>It is, indeed, the law &#8211; but breaking its legal contract is <i>not treason</i> &#8211; it says so itself.</p>
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