~ story ~
Legally, it looks to be pretty much by the book. Even shooting while escaping (normally a no-no) is probably legit, here, since the bad guys still had a deadly weapon. He even had a reasonably clear background.
Might want to get-in some more range time, though. (Heck, we all should.) Still, shootin’ under up-close-and-personal pressure is hard to do perfectly, unless you train daily.
I like how he waited until the perp wasn’t looking before he drew. You can’t out-draw a drawn gun, so you need movement, distraction, or aggression (see: previous lecture on OODA).
Train yourself to do a double-tap, though. Don’t wait to see if the first shot hits.
Try to keep your more-accurate two-handed grip, too; although I suspect moving balance was an issue, here.
The .380? Wellp … he had it on him, the good guys lived, and the bad guys left, so it was good enough.
Heck, that’s what I carry in very-polite society (Colt Mustang Pocketlite), but a .357/.40/.45 in injun’ country.
All in all … attaboy !
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44 Comments!
Thank you for that Birfday Pleasant Doug!! I love happy endings!
“Hmm…maybe I should have gotten my GED after all.”
The young men certainly seemed motivated about leaving, didn’t they?
Mine: Beretta 85F, nickel plated – an old Italian Army Officer’s sidearm, acceptance marks and all. In .380 auto (aka 9mm short) – which, yes, is a little light on power, but gets the job done. Don’t try shooting through windshields and the like is my advice.
Plus a “leetle beety” one for unforeseen emergencies. You get to guess about that.
I love how they were running for their lives,just wish that he had a bigger gun and killed them both.
“bozhe moi!!”
That’s Russkie for “Can I have some clean underwear. please?”
Depending on which car I’m driving I either carry a Heckler-Koch HK4, .380 or S&W model 38 ,(Bodyguard) in .38.
“Gladson (from the State Attorney’s office) said he has reviewed the security surveillance video from the cafe. While he still awaits final reports from the Marion County Sheriff’s Office, he said the shooting appeared justified.”
“Samuel Williams, 71, who fired the shots, has a concealed weapons permit, according to the Sheriff’s Office. Under Florida law, a person is allowed to use deadly force if he or she fears death or serious injury to themselves or others. As long as the person isn’t committing a crime and is in a place where he or she has a right to be, they are considered to be acting within the law.”
The libtards in the People’s Republik of Gainesville refer to us as the “Gunshine State”. Right-O!
One of them was shot three times, and he’s fine. So much for .380.
shot three times, and he’s fine
Looking for the silver lining, he was scared shitless, will prolly have nightmares, will prolly go to prison and maybe had considerable pain for a while. That’s all a good thing for a punk like him.
If Obama had two sons, they’d look like those two.
hahahahahaha!!!
Do you effing see how that man changed everything? People cowering in fear of the bad guys then suddnely the bad guys are turning and running like the little bitches they are.
Great work for the old guy. It is unfortunate the punks weren’t killed. Only way to be sure they won’t keep on with their violent behavior.
#9 Steve. A .380 is fine IF you use the right ammo. 85 grain silver tipped hollow points will do the job.
Sigh. Where isn’t injun’ country these days?
If my weapon isn’t big enough, will threatening them with my insult finger help?
“Zil Lanes“, heh. Some animals is just more equal than others.
Results count more than style and his style looked pretty durn good. Wonder if he was reading gun sites and gun blogs on the Internet in that cafe. Also wonder what his background is. Retired police officer? Nam vet? Just an ordinary fed up with crime citizen?
Hope the authorities in Florida recognize and reward him. A number of years ago in Texas a state trooper was shot to death while making a routine traffic stop. A citizen was passing by just as the shooting occured. The bad guy got out of his vehicle and shot the trooper many more times. Citizen got stopped 50 yards or so down the highway, unlimbered his deer rifle and terminated bad guy’s rap sheet. The Texas State Troopers later recognized the citizen and presented him with an engraved Colt .45acp., the same sidearm carried by Texas Rangers.
These perps were amateurs from the gitgo. I won`t bore you with all the errors; just a few big ones:
1. Control of the scene. Number 2 should have walked in, announced his intentions and had everyone lay down on their bellies with HANDS stretched out in front of the body(Marine Rule: Never lose sight of the hands!…)
2. Shotgun perp. Come in second, stay by door to cover inside/outside with the “area weapon”.
3.Number 2 checks (rapidly…) all the scene potential hidden spaces, while covered by number one` shotgun. [psychological edge: pick closest victim and announce any foul play and he/she dies....] CCW neutralizer…
4. Prior to robbery actual, visit and get layout design/estimate distances in feet/obstacles/phones/alarms/etc. Make a layout somewhere else and fucking REHEARSE!
5. Cover the fucking backside of your partner. DON`t run around exposing your back to the whole fucking scene!!!!
6. You ain`t serious if you ain`t ready to die fighting!!!!
Finally, Never, ever attempt something like this if ONE or BOTH of you are FUCKING DUMBSHITS!
How can a dumbshit tell if he is a dumbshit? Get a copy of this tape; that`s how– {…if that ain`t possible, make a note to yourself if the only pussy you have ever had——was paid for….. =8^( }
I would like to buy that fine gentleman a drink.
“Lay down on the floor and keep calm, you won’t get hurt.”
– Dillinger’s favorite line
“Keep lookin’ at that floor folks. If you raise your head, violence is likely to ensue.”
– Mal Reynolds
Bad plan all around:
1) Cheap – not much to take in an internet cafe, I’m thinking.
2) Daytime robbery – too many people, hard to keep an eye on everyone.
3) ALWAYS cover your exit. Getting in is easy, getting out can be real hard.
4)Are you ready to die? It’s a possibility.
PS: remind me of a time I was in a local cop bar, and a guy came in to try and rob the joint. Mask, pistol, “nobody move”, the whole magilla.
You could hear hammers going back all around the room. Me, I got down, as I wasn’t armed.
Somebody commented “Boy, did YOU pick the wrong bar.”
Proof that old people are still highly useful…
But ColJ: if they weren’t dumbshits they wouldn’t been there in the first place…
… course maybe they never tried it before where anybody was armed, so thought there was nothing to it.
There’s another interesting psycho-physiological/tactical consideration, here. Robbers generally don’t intend to kill or get into a fight. They use a gun for dominance and fear. They expect you to fear for your life and cower, submit, or flee.
When the victim doesn’t, but becomes an aggressive threat to the perp, the perp reacts as they had expected their victim to react. All of a sudden, the perp is in fear of their life.
Fight or flight?
In this case, we know the answer: flight
… with a fall-flat-on-your-ass thrown in.
Alan, outback bacon czar I favor Hydra Shoks myself in my P-3AT. (My summer with-me-alla-time gun.) But .380 did its job here, put ‘em to runnin’ and marked ‘em for later identification.
And I understand these “Internet cafes” are thinly disguised casinos, so yeah, there’s a lot of cash about.
Mr. Dumbshit with the pistol turned his back on the old “safe” white guy. Probably the one guy in the place that was packin’.
And yeah, hope those .380 holes hurt like a bastard.
Mojo, bet all those hammers coming back sounded like crickets in that bar…
Ah yes, Happy endings are good.
Bet the perps are going to never live down the story of those perforations. Especially in prison. Hahahahaaaaaa!
In my opinion, no pistol is “fine.” No pistol has serious stopping power, and they’re all hard to aim in an emergency. They all stink compared to a real gun. But a .45 or 10mm is much less “not fine” than a .380. I know a .380 is way better than no gun at all, but to me, it makes no sense to carry something that weak, when you can at least move up to 9mm. If you can find room in your pants for a .380, you should be able to find room for a Kel-Tec or some other 9mm compact. I’ve never been in a situation where I couldn’t manage a Glock 26, which is worlds better than a .380.
If that punk had had any guts, he could have turned around with those three little slugs in him and done terrible damage to that heroic citizen.
I think I’d rather have a good .22 than a .380. The dramatic increase in accuracy might offset the loss of power.
heartwarming; but I’m missing the Central Carolina Hockey reference?
Who in hell goes to Internet cafes?
He’s ADORABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL@PatrickP # 30!
I dunno SteveHGraham,
My dufus cousin accidently fired a .22 caliber bullet in my left leg, one night when we were bullfrog hunting on Crooked Creek. We were both 12 or 13 yrs old. Stung like a sonofabitch, but didn`t bleed much. We cut a bandage out of the seed corn sack we were carrying the frogs in(…lotta food on the table w 90 of em…); packed the wound w *blue spring mud* and tied with the bandage.
How 2 boy`s logic overrode real logic: We decided not to tell the adults for fear of a whipping. However, by 2nd day it hurt too much and we confessed to two of our Aunts (Emma Lou & Fern…) Emma Lou washed it, took tweezers and dug out the bullet. Douched it out with iodine and wrapped in a fresh cloth bandage. Begged for and got the aunts to not tell the menfolk (all them frogs prolly helped…)
Still did all our normal farm chores and a few days later I forgot about it. {I still have a nice round scar on the leg…}
My point? I ain`t sure a .22 caliber *bullet launcher* is a show stopper in a situation like this post addresses. Seems to me you would have to hit a vital area AND follow it up with the whole magazine—–just to be sure?
Hell, I walked a couple of miles and waited a couple of days after my stoopid cousin gooned the most fundamental gun safety rules we had been taught……………..Any thoughts?
Dumbass kids. They’re prevalent these days and fairly dangerous. The worst thing is that they’re fed by taxpayers from conception to death, whether it’s by subsidizing or keeping them behind bars.
COL Jerry (#19): these morons are 19 years old. And your points should be classified strictly “need to know”.
SteveHGraham: “In my opinion, no pistol is “fine.”
Have you seen this one:
The Judge
It’s called “The Judge” because it’s said to have been favored by judges in the Southeast, in court situations where the defendant might be tempted to pull a gun.
ZZMike,
Ordinarily I would agree with you. I used my memory from way back as a major enrolled in an unclassified course on Small Unit Urban Warfare. It was originally based on lessons learned from fighting the NVA in Hue, Vietnam.
However, to refresh myself I scanned several Blogs, using Bing, and found these techniques in detail on all of them! Need to Know is all over the innertoobs……………….
Which means that “HOG”has access, in spite of your *implied* information release caution……
A .22 is an assassin’s round used against a non-threat in direct contact with a weak point of the skull. Heck, I’ve put down a friggin’ horse with one, but I wouldn’t depend on it against a hoodie.
It’s probably more effective than a .25acp, though. As the old saying goes, “If you shoot me with a .25, and I find out about it, I’m gonna be pissed!”
The .380acp (aka 9mm short or 9mm kurtz) is a low-power, grappling-distance round that must hit a small vital area (brain, spine, heart, pelvis) to have stopping effect. I’ll defer to the real experts, here.
The low-power (pressure) of the .380 round doesn’t require a strong (heavy, large) frame. Yes, there are some 9mm handguns that are almost as small and light, but a 9mm is only marginally more effective in practical stopping power. The main advantage of a 9mm is high-capacity magazines, which you need to give you enough shots to assure effective hits. A .380 with Federal Hydra-Shok® (or other hollowpoint) ammo is about as effective as a 9mm or .38spl with ball ammo. Of course, you’d carry a 9/38 with hollowpoints rather than ball ammo, too, even +P loads (higher-pressure, but only if that gun is designed for ‘em) which make them far more effective. I often carry a S&W M642 shrouded-hammer snubbie with .38spl +P Hydra-Shoks for pocket/car carry (an almost ideal carry piece). I carry my small Colt Mustang Pocketlite .380 with Hydra-Shoks for belt carry in polite society or on the Harley.
Nowadays, there are a few .40s as small/light as most compact 9s (like my new S&W M&P Shield), and they’re very effective. No, they’re not a .45acp, but they’re somewhat smaller and lighter, a good all-around choice.
Can’t argue with a .357mag or .45acp for one-shot stopping power, though (like I said, for injun country); and with a little thought and prep, they are fine for concealed carry — they’re just not no-brainers.
The best gun for self-defense is the one you have on you at the time …
but you have to know how to use it. (see: training & practice)
If he hadn’t had that gun and used it how many people would have been shot? Than after it was over 30 cops would be there with guns drawn. Too late!!!
DougM: I don’t get around much in those circles – I heard that hollowpoint rounds were not legal for mere civilians. But from what I read now, it don’t seem to make no nevermind.
When I was a kid, a friend of mine had a sawed-off .22 rifle (now pistol) that we must have had hollowpoint .22s for, because I remember we put match heads in them and closed them up. Made a nice hole in a piece of wood.
On another occasion, I almost got kilt by that weapon, when it accidentally dropped and went off. Luckily, without matchheads.
PS: There’s a nice video of full metal jacket vs hollowpoint rounds at Round point Vs hollow point bullets.
Shows you how hard water is when it hits something at about 2000 fps.
There’s another video at that one that shows how to turn cinder block into dust with a “vz.58 rifle” (“slow motion bullet impacts”). (It amazes me that you can strip down such a weapon into little bits – without tools – and put it back together again, ready to fire. Try doing that with an iPhone.
It isn’t the size of the dog in the fight… it’s the fight in the dog.
That old geezer had FIGHT while the younger guys were chicken livered little Trayvons.
And they almost ended up like Trayvon did.
Oh, and did you hear their interview. Why they just was gonna rob and their poor old guns didn’t work. No reason for that bad old man to start cappen them! Why they just made some ‘bad decisions’ in their life.
And least that is their point of view.
I saw this on youtube the other day, i thought to myself its people like that who make places safe to be, and makes you truly appreciate good people taking a stand in our modern society, so good for him!
I godda comment on Samuel Williams, 71, the ol’ geezer that
shot those 2 punks! What DougM said in the post, ’bout
I like how he waited until the perp wasn’t looking before he drew
Then the way he pursued them at close range & firing at them even
out the door! And I didn’t see him flinch, duck or even move aside.
He went straight at ‘em at close range! Clint Eastwood’s got
nuttin’ on him! I’m looking forward to finding out ’bout his
background! He’s the bravest sumbitch’ I’ve seen in a long time!
I hope he inspires a whole buncha other ol’ geezers, like veterans
to get armed & trained!
zzmike (38)
Well, dum-dum bullets are illegal some places. Basically, they’re regular lead slugs with an X cut/sawed in ‘em.
Hollowpoints are standard self-defense rounds.
I teach my CCH students to ask a gunshop’s recommendation on what to load for personal defense. Helps avoid any “mad assassin” claims in court.
Same with guns. Out-of-the-box stock. No “cop wannabe” or “high-speed/low-drag” professional add-on stuff. Expertise in the basics is all you’ll ever have time for.
^ Lance,
Amen, bro’. Aggression makes the bad guy fear for his life — not Plan-A for them.
ZZMike (39), tanx for that vid link to the demo ‘tween round nose FMJ
& hollow point ‘serrated’ bullets. (‘projectiles’ for instructor DougM)
I don’t think I’ll ever forget that very ‘visual’ comparison.
I also think that a hollow point bullet might significantly affect the
above comments re the effectiveness of different calibers & loads.
My question is ,”What is the difference in ‘human’ target damage
between a .380 hollow point & round nose? Also between a .380
hollow point & more powerful .38 & 9MM rounds. The .380 is obviously
easier to conceal & fire, just not powerful enough in some situations.
I defer to DougM & more knowledgeable peeps about this question.
My impression is that a .380 HP just might have taken those 2 punks
out with one shot. FWIW.