nice bank you got there

All,
My name is Joe Sirochman owner of American Spirit Arms and I wanted to share my recent experience with Bank of America .(which we have been doing business with for over 10 years)…. Everyone is familiar with the latest increase in guns sales , dealers selling out of inventory , Manufacturers back logged for months , large revenue all generated in the last two weeks …. American Spirit Arms is no exception to the overwhelming demand . What we have experienced is that our web site orders have jumped 500 % causing our web site E commerce processing larger Deposits to BANK OF AMERICA ..Well, this through up a huge RED Flag with Bank of America . So they decided to hold the deposits for further review , meaning that the orders/payments that were coming in through the web ,( being paid by the customer and that were shipped out by American Spirit Arms ),the BANK was keeping (UNDER REVIEW )..as you could imagine this made me furious…After countless hours on the phone with BANK OF AMERICA I finally got a Manager in the right department that told me the reason that the deposits were on hold for FURTHER REVIEW …HER EXACT WORDS WERE …
..” WE BELIEVE YOU SHOULD NOT BE SELLING GUNS and PARTS ON THE INTERNET “
…I flipped the F**k Out and told them that they have no right to make up their own new rules and regs..that we are a firearms Manufacturer with all the proper licensing FFL (Federal Firearm license ), SOT and that we follow all Federal and All
States’ rules and regulations on shipping Firearms and parts ..and that we are also Audited by ATF and Homeland
Security on a regular basis … She said that she understands that but that the deposits will be released After they have a
Chance to review and clear them …I told her that This was unacceptable and the those deposits (that were a week old by now ) needed to be released ASAP, that we are a small business and rely on the revenue to run and stay operational.
After that being said another Manager got involved and released one of the deposits (to help out )… So far to date after
Two weeks of sales only 1/3 of collected internet sales have been released ..I am still pissed and looking for another
Bank and options …
I just thought the public should know ..

I will keep everyone posted on new developments ..

Sincerely

Joseph P Sirochman
American Spirit Arms
16001 N Greenway Hayden Loop
Suite B
Scottsdale AZ 85260

25 Comments!

  1. mojo
    Posted January 8, 2013 at 12:45 pm |

    “Your beliefs are irrelevant.”

  2. geezerette
    Posted January 8, 2013 at 12:51 pm |

    This whole gun control thing is getting out of control. It really scares me. It’s almost as if ~~~~~~~~~~~~ nah~~~~~~ that couldn’t be could it?

  3. DougM (Progophobe)
    Posted January 8, 2013 at 1:16 pm |

    BofA’s done anti-gun crap before.
    I yanked my accounts from them back in the ’90s (for some gun-related nonsense I don’t recall) with harsh words for the manager and a letter to the president.

    What’s next?
    Is GE gonna refuse to sell me something, ’cause I said Obama’s a jackass?

  4. PeggyU
    Posted January 8, 2013 at 1:35 pm |

    I think that may be illegal.

    There is this: http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/regcc/regcc.htm

    I can understand that it might take longer to process a very large deposit, and can also see why you might want to place a hold on funds that could take time to clear … but the length of time this guy’s deposits were frozen seems inordinate.

  5. PeggyU
    Posted January 8, 2013 at 1:55 pm |

    I attempted to verify the regulations regarding availability of funds, and it seems like this is the rule.

    I called Clark Howard’s hotline, and they informed me that the link I used above was the appropriate one for filing a complaint against a bank regarding improperly detained funds.

    It seems like a number of people who commented on this had similar experiences with large banks, but from anything I have been able to find, there is no excuse for holding funds beyond a “reasonable” time limit (which seems to be at the outside about 5 business days).

  6. geezerette
    Posted January 8, 2013 at 1:57 pm |

    She said, “We believe you should not be selling guns and parts on the internet”———–

  7. PeggyU
    Posted January 8, 2013 at 2:11 pm |

    To a degree, banks can exercise their own judgement on placing holds, but what BOA did appears to be outside of their discretionary wiggle room.

  8. Colonel Jerry USMC
    Posted January 8, 2013 at 2:22 pm |

    Bank of America has always had a rotten relationship with their customers. I know because, back in the 80s, I used to drive my 80 yr old Aunt (…in law…) to/from BofA in San Clemente, CA. She had a coupla hunnert grand in that bank, yet they treated her like shit. Course she dressed in the same clothes she had bought during the Depression and owned a 1967 Ford 4-door as the original owner.

    I would band with The Bank of Nigeria before Bank of America!

  9. geezerette
    Posted January 8, 2013 at 2:25 pm |

    Their discretionary wiggle room should only deal with his finances and how it affects his ability to do business with them.

  10. Lurch
    Posted January 8, 2013 at 2:26 pm |

    Concur: This is not their 1st time:

    http://www.nrahuntersrights.org/Article.aspx?id=6457

  11. PeggyU
    Posted January 8, 2013 at 3:10 pm |

    Geezerette – Exactly. They are descriminating against his business and they are outside of the regulation guidelines for the amount of time (2 weeks > 5 business days), which is what I was getting at. Even if they had the leeway to discriminate based on their own personal beliefs, they still would have to stay within the timeframe allowed.

  12. Caged Insanity
    Posted January 8, 2013 at 3:25 pm |

    While I firmly believe that a private business has the right to deny service to anyone, for any reason, this is not one of those cases.
    BofA entered into a contract of service with this customer. They chose *not* to deny service, and now, on the fly, they are changing the rules to fit their game, and you know damn well they are making interest/profit on those funds which are being held.
    The so called “manager” that told him they don’t believe he should be selling guns should hanged.

  13. Posted January 8, 2013 at 3:39 pm |

    The whole “hold” concept is getting pretty outdated. It was originally instituted to make sure that the funds behind a (physical) check that (physically) travel from, oh, Scottsdale to Philadelphia, would be there when the check arrived. It also accounted for any return trip, if the funds weren’t actually there.

    Now-a-days. checks are scanned, and the images essentially e-mailed. I can scan a paper check, upload the scan to my bank, and have credit for the funds the next day.

    Oh, and find a new bank. Something locally based.

  14. PeggyU
    Posted January 8, 2013 at 3:52 pm |

    I wonder how much Homeland Security actually monitors bank accounts and transactions? I know when you go to set up a new account that the paperwork has become more cumbersome because they now have to provide some information for the Department of Homeland Security. I never read the fine print on that form when I was setting up any of those accounts, however. Probably should have!

  15. geezerette
    Posted January 8, 2013 at 3:52 pm |

    Like I said this gun control thing is getting out of hand. It’s a fire heading for a gas tank—

  16. Fat Baxter
    Posted January 8, 2013 at 4:43 pm |

    I’ve had to deal with BofA before. They’re a bunch of villainous snotweasels. They treat their customers like sh*t.

  17. LLoyd
    Posted January 8, 2013 at 7:34 pm |

    This Inauguration is going to be the jump start for totalitarianism and BO is going to be angling for “His Excellency” for the UN for the 10 years post 2016.

    Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

    Barry, you been foolin with the USA too long. Instant karma gonna get you.

  18. Buzz
    Posted January 8, 2013 at 8:02 pm |

    “Bank of Obama’s America,” more like it….

  19. rickn8or
    Posted January 8, 2013 at 9:05 pm |

    Baxter, at that BofA treats customers better than its’ vendors.

  20. DougM (Progophobe)
    Posted January 8, 2013 at 11:41 pm |

    Here’s a graphic I uploaded 4/24/12, don’t remember why.

  21. ZZMike
    Posted January 9, 2013 at 2:20 am |

    B of A is not widely known as a Good Guy. American Spirit Arms needs to move its account to another bank. Lawsuits should follow.

  22. Stick
    Posted January 9, 2013 at 6:16 am |

    BOA used to be different. NCNB, NationsBank was an entrepreneurial bank that took over BOA & took their name. They got infected with the Bay area bullshit & became politically correct, falling for the community organizers crap & failing to stand up to them and government lending regs. When they got bailed out, enter Bank Boston. It’s now run from there even though the titular title is in Charlotte.

    I have a friend who was head-hunted into a Senior VP job there for his out-of-banking retail consulting experience.

    He says it is ate-up with liberals, but just like Rush’s low-information voters, after Dodd/Frank the liberals were saing “WTF? This ain’t right.” How did this happen to us.

    What happened to BOA & Wachovia/Wells Fargo is that the government basically stole the redneck growing banks from the South & put California & Boston in charge.

    They are using it as their own personal tax entity now. that $8b pay-off for doing exactly what the government made them do is just the start.

    Welcome to the new world order.

    With the Wells take-over of Wachovia, I closed everything including refinancing my mortgage with BB&T. It was run by an Ayn Rand conservative who had to be forced to take bail-out money, kept it a year & paid it back.

  23. Thunderbottom
    Posted January 9, 2013 at 6:53 am |

    #1, mojo: “Your beliefs are irrelevant.” is that an Indian or African irrelevant?
    But, seriously, what if the “shoe was on the other foot”? What if some bank froze the funds of some “family planning clinic” because the clinic espoused abortion? You can bet that the MSM, from the alphabet networks to the NYT and WaPo, would be castigating the managers of that bank, pushing for boycotts, and demanding that the Feds take punitive action against said managers.

  24. geezerette
    Posted January 9, 2013 at 8:38 am |

    Everyone in this administration has to take the Hipocritic oath of office before they serve.

  25. Melissa In Texas
    Posted January 9, 2013 at 7:17 pm |

    I was done with BOA when they started extending lines of credit to illegals….
    No… wait….
    I was done with BOA back in 1983 when they held a CASH deposit made before 11 AM for 3 days and allowed checks to bounce on my account…
    assholes…….
    they have ALWAYS been assholes!