The obama administration hates Arizona and especially Gov. Brewer and Sherriff Joe. obama et al will use and abuse all the power they have to punish Arizona for daring to show it’s independent spirit. Likewise, obama also hates Texas and our governor Rick Perry. To me it is a badge of honor to be on obama’s shit list.
Comment by TomR, armed in Texas — May 12, 2012 @ 11:09 am
The Feds’ actions are approachin’ what one used to call “tyranny.”
Just sayin’.
I’m thinkin’: a few small “obstacles” on the road.
You know, eco-terrorism. That’s PC, right?
Just sayin’.
Comment by DougM (jackassophobe) — May 12, 2012 @ 11:25 am
They should just send in equipment and fix the damned thing.
The water supply was there before the wilderness was designated, and water rights in the West are homesteaded and not riparian.
Similar crap has been resolved this way, including some county roads the feds wanted to get rid of.
If push comes to shove, this little coward in the whitehouse will blink.
Right! Just send in the bulldozers, the backhoes, the draglines, etc.
AND a bunch of Arizona State Troopers with orders to arrest any Fed monkey that tries to interfere and ESCORT their asses to The California line!
It’s OK to shoot them.. they are not really people; just Government Meat Puppets.
Comment by Lucius Severus Pertinax — May 12, 2012 @ 11:47 am
This predates Obama. I lived in the shadow of the National Red Dirt Wilderness area in Natchitoches Parish for 20 years, 1980-2000. No motors allowed in a wilderness area. No tractors, bulldozers, 4-wheelers, chain saws, nothing. When the wilderness caught fire, they’d let it burn to the perimeter and fight it there, because not even firefighting crews could bring engines into the wilderness area. If you wanted to fight the fire, you fought it on foot with hand tools, or not at all.
This sucks for Tombstone, but this has been law a long time. I’m no Obama supporter, but this ain’t his fault.
PawPaw – I think the posters above made the point that the water rights of the town and other areas in the West predated any “Wilderness” designations and the areas’ becoming states in the union.
What Kristopher and LCP said. Personally, I’m sick of theft by bureaucrat.
Comment by dick, not quite dead white guy — May 12, 2012 @ 12:34 pm
OBoBo can always *declare* martial law. That should work——–.oOH wait…[...dinna Wash, DC usta be a malarial swamp?...]
Comment by Colonel Jerry USMC — May 12, 2012 @ 1:02 pm
W.T.F.
Obama and his minions doing their level best to destroy those who dare oppose them.
Comment by Melissa In Texas — May 12, 2012 @ 1:29 pm
In the event that history is even allowed to be written at the time, it will be noted that when the time came for America to take up the rights of the second amendment, they were too busy worrying about that evenings TV schedule.
Comment by Caged Insanity — May 12, 2012 @ 1:50 pm
dick says: “PawPaw – I think the posters above made the point that the water rights of the town and other areas in the West predated any “Wilderness” designations and the areas’ becoming states in the union.”
I’m not arguing whether they have a right to the water, I’m sure that they can make a great case that their water rights are secure. What they don’t have is the legal ability to take a motor into a wilderness area. I would bet that the FedGov would agree that they have water rights. That ain’t the point. Of course they have water rights. They simply don’t have the right to take a motor into a wilderness area.
It all changes when the bureaucrats find that a trip to the grocery store exposes their family to shame, ridicule and the certainty that society is pissed and vindictive.
Of course they have water rights. They simply don’t have the right to take a motor into a wilderness area.
So if the Hoover Dam is on the verge of collapse, and repair requires vehicles to travel into a wilderness area, we’re just supposed to allow thousands of people to die? Because that’s where that fucking attitude leads. Starvation, poverty, disease, and death, all to “save the trees”.
Comment by Caged Insanity — May 12, 2012 @ 3:15 pm
The revolution is getting near. People aren’t going to take this crap a lot longer.
Comment by Alan outback bacon czar — May 12, 2012 @ 3:25 pm
Fix it and shame the administration publicly for allowing a bureaucracy to supercede the rights of the citizens over some arbitrary rule.
Declare a state of emergency then move in at night and begin working while the feds try to pull their thumbs out and seek another Waco.
Doesn’t the governor also have authority over the National Guard? I think enough could be mustered to shield the work while average citizens grid lock the roads for a while around the feds’ local HQs.
When its done and the ground is left as pretty as it was found, and the town has its water back, the mud wrestling can bog down the courts.
Oh wait, make it dust wrestling since there isn’t any water.
So if the Hoover Dam is on the verge of collapse, and repair requires vehicles to travel into a wilderness area, we’re just supposed to allow thousands of people to die? Because that’s where that fucking attitude leads. Starvation, poverty, disease, and death, all to “save the trees”.
Last time I was at the Hoover Dam, there wasn’t any wilderness area, and there weren’t any trees. Nothing to save, you can drive anywhere.
Look, guys, I’m not defending this policy, only saying that I’ve lived with it. You ought to be 400 yards from a 10,000 acre wildfire and told that you can’t do anything until it gets closer to your house. Been there, done that.
I can’t believe that the town council of Tombstone hasn’t seen this coming and made other plans. C’mon, you’ve got to have water and your supply is in a wilderness area? Seriously? How you gonna fix them pumps?
The easiest way to fix the pumps is to insure the bureaucrats have no water, unless it comes from the source they’ve made such an effort prevent anyone from using. By the third day, I think they’ll find a way to circumvent their paper shuffling and enjoy some water.
Tombstone was established in 1877, the Wilderness area was established in 1984. The town trumps the wilderness area.
By the way the “rules” for the wilderness area don’t only restrict motorized use, but mechanized also. Use of mountain bikes and wheelbarrows (that the town was using, not anything motorized.) The administration (USDA) could have issued an varriance to allow the town to get water, but they haven’t (and won’t) because they don’t care about people (see also the CA water vs smelt issue).
Here in AZ the USDA is working on trying to close a huge percentage of the state down to people completely. Most of it is being pushed by a group called The Center for Biological Diversity. Whole areas of National forest are being closed starting this summer. There has even been talk of closing the Grand Canyon down from vistors off and on for several years now.
Katzmeow, #17, I am with your thoughts, and add a few. I was born in Tombstone, later moved to Tucson up the road a piece, still have Grandad’s ‘ranch’ just outside the area… Galway. The town council in Tombstone, the Town too tough to Die, means Nothing.
The Folks there, besides the ones that just moved in wanting the ‘mystique’ of the Old West, Take Care Of Things Themselves.
I have a well on the Ranch. Pablo, my Foreman, and a Citizen, will use our backhoe, skip loader, or whatever he deems necessary, to repair problems.
Eff the Feds, and Eff the Council. They paved Main Street back a few years… Didn’t set well, because Tombstone is Tombstone…… Middle of the night, all the asphalt got tore up.
I directly asked a rep from Puget Sound Energy about their “Green energy” program where you get to pay more for your electricity in exchange for telling your green friends that you use green power.
I asked the price per KWH of wind and solar power. He refused to give me a straight answer. he said there is a price but it “varies with the installation”. So I asked what the average price is, and he began to get visibly upset with me.
Then I mentioned that I thought we should use hydro and coal and forget about the farce of green power. He got pissed at that point and said i was just another moron trashing the earth.
All this shit is just a tax write off for wealthy Obamunists and a sneaky way to raise rates.
Comment by JoeBandMember® — May 12, 2012 @ 7:41 pm
Yeah, I’m way off topic, but it’s the same exact tune.
Comment by JoeBandMember® — May 12, 2012 @ 7:46 pm
Simple solution. Escalate. Do what needs doing and tell the Feds to ef themselves. Force it onto the headlines nationwide. Show the world what the thugs are trying to do. Expose this. Force them to call out the military to stop AZ from providing water to its people. Make it a huge embarrassment to Obama. See who blinks first. It WILL be the EPA.
Comment by Annoyed White Male — May 13, 2012 @ 4:56 am
Paw Paw:
The wilderness act allows the Forest Service to make exceptions for vehicle rules as needed.
A good example is variances issued for rescue helicopters. Obama’s ASDA is deliberately picking a fight here, by pushing the Wilderness Act into territory where they have avoided conflict by issuing pro-forma variances in the past.
In the past, when that city needed to fix stuff, they let the District Ranger know they needed access, and he would just unlock the gates for them.
They want a legal fight. They should be given one. The city should just bust the gates down, and make the feds do something about it.
The obama administration hates Arizona and especially Gov. Brewer and Sherriff Joe. obama et al will use and abuse all the power they have to punish Arizona for daring to show it’s independent spirit. Likewise, obama also hates Texas and our governor Rick Perry. To me it is a badge of honor to be on obama’s shit list.
Comment by TomR, armed in Texas — May 12, 2012 @ 11:09 am
The Feds’ actions are approachin’ what one used to call “tyranny.”
Just sayin’.
I’m thinkin’: a few small “obstacles” on the road.
You know, eco-terrorism. That’s PC, right?
Just sayin’.
Comment by DougM (jackassophobe) — May 12, 2012 @ 11:25 am
They should just send in equipment and fix the damned thing.
The water supply was there before the wilderness was designated, and water rights in the West are homesteaded and not riparian.
Similar crap has been resolved this way, including some county roads the feds wanted to get rid of.
If push comes to shove, this little coward in the whitehouse will blink.
Comment by Kristophr — May 12, 2012 @ 11:28 am
Right! Just send in the bulldozers, the backhoes, the draglines, etc.
AND a bunch of Arizona State Troopers with orders to arrest any Fed monkey that tries to interfere and ESCORT their asses to The California line!
It’s OK to shoot them.. they are not really people; just Government Meat Puppets.
Comment by Lucius Severus Pertinax — May 12, 2012 @ 11:47 am
This predates Obama. I lived in the shadow of the National Red Dirt Wilderness area in Natchitoches Parish for 20 years, 1980-2000. No motors allowed in a wilderness area. No tractors, bulldozers, 4-wheelers, chain saws, nothing. When the wilderness caught fire, they’d let it burn to the perimeter and fight it there, because not even firefighting crews could bring engines into the wilderness area. If you wanted to fight the fire, you fought it on foot with hand tools, or not at all.
This sucks for Tombstone, but this has been law a long time. I’m no Obama supporter, but this ain’t his fault.
Comment by PawPaw — May 12, 2012 @ 11:53 am
PawPaw – I think the posters above made the point that the water rights of the town and other areas in the West predated any “Wilderness” designations and the areas’ becoming states in the union.
What Kristopher and LCP said. Personally, I’m sick of theft by bureaucrat.
Comment by dick, not quite dead white guy — May 12, 2012 @ 12:34 pm
OBoBo can always *declare* martial law. That should work——–.oOH wait…[...dinna Wash, DC usta be a malarial swamp?...]
Comment by Colonel Jerry USMC — May 12, 2012 @ 1:02 pm
W.T.F.
Obama and his minions doing their level best to destroy those who dare oppose them.
Comment by Melissa In Texas — May 12, 2012 @ 1:29 pm
In the event that history is even allowed to be written at the time, it will be noted that when the time came for America to take up the rights of the second amendment, they were too busy worrying about that evenings TV schedule.
Comment by Caged Insanity — May 12, 2012 @ 1:50 pm
dick says: “PawPaw – I think the posters above made the point that the water rights of the town and other areas in the West predated any “Wilderness” designations and the areas’ becoming states in the union.”
I’m not arguing whether they have a right to the water, I’m sure that they can make a great case that their water rights are secure. What they don’t have is the legal ability to take a motor into a wilderness area. I would bet that the FedGov would agree that they have water rights. That ain’t the point. Of course they have water rights. They simply don’t have the right to take a motor into a wilderness area.
Comment by PawPaw — May 12, 2012 @ 2:50 pm
It all changes when the bureaucrats find that a trip to the grocery store exposes their family to shame, ridicule and the certainty that society is pissed and vindictive.
Comment by Jess — May 12, 2012 @ 2:55 pm
So if the Hoover Dam is on the verge of collapse, and repair requires vehicles to travel into a wilderness area, we’re just supposed to allow thousands of people to die? Because that’s where that fucking attitude leads. Starvation, poverty, disease, and death, all to “save the trees”.
Comment by Caged Insanity — May 12, 2012 @ 3:15 pm
The revolution is getting near. People aren’t going to take this crap a lot longer.
Comment by Alan outback bacon czar — May 12, 2012 @ 3:25 pm
Fix it and shame the administration publicly for allowing a bureaucracy to supercede the rights of the citizens over some arbitrary rule.
Declare a state of emergency then move in at night and begin working while the feds try to pull their thumbs out and seek another Waco.
Doesn’t the governor also have authority over the National Guard? I think enough could be mustered to shield the work while average citizens grid lock the roads for a while around the feds’ local HQs.
When its done and the ground is left as pretty as it was found, and the town has its water back, the mud wrestling can bog down the courts.
Oh wait, make it dust wrestling since there isn’t any water.
Comment by mech — May 12, 2012 @ 3:59 pm
Last time I was at the Hoover Dam, there wasn’t any wilderness area, and there weren’t any trees. Nothing to save, you can drive anywhere.
Look, guys, I’m not defending this policy, only saying that I’ve lived with it. You ought to be 400 yards from a 10,000 acre wildfire and told that you can’t do anything until it gets closer to your house. Been there, done that.
I can’t believe that the town council of Tombstone hasn’t seen this coming and made other plans. C’mon, you’ve got to have water and your supply is in a wilderness area? Seriously? How you gonna fix them pumps?
Comment by PawPaw — May 12, 2012 @ 4:03 pm
The easiest way to fix the pumps is to insure the bureaucrats have no water, unless it comes from the source they’ve made such an effort prevent anyone from using. By the third day, I think they’ll find a way to circumvent their paper shuffling and enjoy some water.
Comment by Jess — May 12, 2012 @ 4:09 pm
Tombstone was established in 1877, the Wilderness area was established in 1984. The town trumps the wilderness area.
By the way the “rules” for the wilderness area don’t only restrict motorized use, but mechanized also. Use of mountain bikes and wheelbarrows (that the town was using, not anything motorized.) The administration (USDA) could have issued an varriance to allow the town to get water, but they haven’t (and won’t) because they don’t care about people (see also the CA water vs smelt issue).
Here in AZ the USDA is working on trying to close a huge percentage of the state down to people completely. Most of it is being pushed by a group called The Center for Biological Diversity. Whole areas of National forest are being closed starting this summer. There has even been talk of closing the Grand Canyon down from vistors off and on for several years now.
Comment by katzemeow — May 12, 2012 @ 4:29 pm
We should declare Washington DC a Wilderness Area…but it is already broke.
Comment by accipiter NW — May 12, 2012 @ 4:34 pm
Some more links if anyone is interested
http://azdailysun.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/sheriff-objects-to-road-closures/article_cb7368ed-50fb-5ebe-a5a8-09c072bacb9a.html
http://campverdebugleonline.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=34509
Comment by katzemeow — May 12, 2012 @ 4:36 pm
Katzmeow, #17, I am with your thoughts, and add a few. I was born in Tombstone, later moved to Tucson up the road a piece, still have Grandad’s ‘ranch’ just outside the area… Galway. The town council in Tombstone, the Town too tough to Die, means Nothing.
The Folks there, besides the ones that just moved in wanting the ‘mystique’ of the Old West, Take Care Of Things Themselves.
I have a well on the Ranch. Pablo, my Foreman, and a Citizen, will use our backhoe, skip loader, or whatever he deems necessary, to repair problems.
Eff the Feds, and Eff the Council. They paved Main Street back a few years… Didn’t set well, because Tombstone is Tombstone…… Middle of the night, all the asphalt got tore up.
“En Pace Resquiscat”
That is a Tombstone thing, Mr. Government Man!
Comment by Wollf — May 12, 2012 @ 5:52 pm
This one might not be the Tipping Point.
But, the Tipping Point is gonna look a helluva lot like this one, I recokon.
Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX
Comment by Jim — May 12, 2012 @ 7:28 pm
I directly asked a rep from Puget Sound Energy about their “Green energy” program where you get to pay more for your electricity in exchange for telling your green friends that you use green power.
I asked the price per KWH of wind and solar power. He refused to give me a straight answer. he said there is a price but it “varies with the installation”. So I asked what the average price is, and he began to get visibly upset with me.
Then I mentioned that I thought we should use hydro and coal and forget about the farce of green power. He got pissed at that point and said i was just another moron trashing the earth.
All this shit is just a tax write off for wealthy Obamunists and a sneaky way to raise rates.
Comment by JoeBandMember® — May 12, 2012 @ 7:41 pm
Yeah, I’m way off topic, but it’s the same exact tune.
Comment by JoeBandMember® — May 12, 2012 @ 7:46 pm
Simple solution. Escalate. Do what needs doing and tell the Feds to ef themselves. Force it onto the headlines nationwide. Show the world what the thugs are trying to do. Expose this. Force them to call out the military to stop AZ from providing water to its people. Make it a huge embarrassment to Obama. See who blinks first. It WILL be the EPA.
Comment by Annoyed White Male — May 13, 2012 @ 4:56 am
Paw Paw:
The wilderness act allows the Forest Service to make exceptions for vehicle rules as needed.
A good example is variances issued for rescue helicopters. Obama’s ASDA is deliberately picking a fight here, by pushing the Wilderness Act into territory where they have avoided conflict by issuing pro-forma variances in the past.
In the past, when that city needed to fix stuff, they let the District Ranger know they needed access, and he would just unlock the gates for them.
They want a legal fight. They should be given one. The city should just bust the gates down, and make the feds do something about it.
Comment by Kristophr — May 13, 2012 @ 1:03 pm
Sorry ” … Obama’s USDA … “
Comment by Kristophr — May 13, 2012 @ 1:04 pm