Comment by DougM (Well, thaaat sucked!) — November 30, 2012 @ 9:15 am
You can’t blame society. Raising kids to understand TRUTH is a full time job, and a lot more difficult than letting “society” raise them and instill “society’s” values in them.
If a parent has done all the right things and the child still grows to be a turd, it is then the child’s fault. Not society, not the parent’s.
Comment by logdogsmith — November 30, 2012 @ 9:36 am
I agree up to a point, logdog, but there are a lot of influences in society completely out of a parent’s control, including those which tacitly suggest that parents represent an old, repressively conservative influence, and that it’s the duty of those who wish for “social justice” to actively disregard what they say.
For most of history rebellion against convention and moderation for its own sake was just cool. But now it’s been recast as a responsibility. And speaking as a parent it’s an absolutely hideous uphill battle pushing back against that, even here. I can’t begin to imagine what it’s like in a place as far gone as the UK.
When we lived in a world where seeking a wife and children and the means to support them was a mark of pride and honor, something people should WANT to seek, “free love” and irresponsibility was bold and transgressive. Now that it’s the norm, good parents are stuck trying to convince their kids to rebel against what they see around them as “normal” every single day.
Comment by apotheosis — November 30, 2012 @ 9:57 am
I can still hear my father yelling at me as lazy juvenile, “Get off your DEAD ASS and do something!!!” Best advice I ever got. It rang in my had all through 7 1/2 years at university, every time I hedged on whether to drag myself out of bed or close my eyes and resume snoring. I regret very much that my father did not live long enough to see his dreams for me realized.
I don’t see anywhere in the son’s pathetic response that he addressed father’s allegations of poor treatment of the mother, nor the failure to “do something” with the education he was given, including no mention at all of his apparent failure to properly provide both financial and emotional stability for his child(ren). Shame, shame, shame.
I’m more on apotheosis’ side than on logdog’s here. I was firmly in Logdog’s camp until the oldest hit about 9-10 years old. Up till then I felt like I had a little control. True, I choose to send the kids to the government school, but in so doing I give up a lot. As far as the oldest kid (14) can tell, Dad is a sucker, working hard when he could just get stuff for free w/out working so hard.
One of many examples:
He’s embarrassed to take “sack lunch” most days, when “all” of the kids “buy” lunch (translated, his Mom and I buy lunch for the kids who “can’t” afford it). We give him a small allowance and also a smaller food allowance. He could buy lunch every day, but then would have no money for Itunes or trackfone minutes or McDonalds or …. We pay for whatever he wants to take from home, provided it doesn’t get wasted. (If I buy a couple pounds of lunch meat and he doesn’t use it, I won’t buy it next week, etc). If he eats reasonably (not too unhealthily) and doesn’t get into enough trouble for me to hear about from the school, I’ll buy him two school lunches a week (that’s the “food allowance) BUT he has to pack a real lunch (not a hamburger roll, or a box of cheezits, a real semi-balanced meal) the other three days. I figure it’s up to him (pack a lunch, spend his allowance, or starve– he makes the choice and he suffers the consequence). But every year we get multiple calls from the school. Jr. doesn’t bring lunch, if we can’t afford to feed him there are programs, etc. We can afford to feed him, but in 4 years he’s going to have to make these decisions for himself, and it’s actually a little late to be starting on this. We are labelled as bad parents, since we are not looking out for his welfare the way the school thinks we should. We are in a small town in a red state, and he’s actually a pretty good kid but this is one of many examples. Imagine living in the city, or in a blue state?
This father, having been a sub skipper in the Royal Navy, is no dummy. Likely he was struggling against a cultural change in England (…and the USA…) that in about the late 50s & early 60s rejected the social customs and mores of those who grew up before them. It penetrated into the very homes of this generation via TV, a then new invention. There are infinite examples of these *new ways* but I will make this larger change evident with only one single example that I remember in my time. When I entered high school in 1956, girls were not permitted to wear anything but a dress, jeans and shorts were forbidden. Elvis Pressley, when he first appeared on the Ed Sullivan Show on TV was not filmed from the waist down. Quickly, however, Television discovered that “sex sells” as did Movies and Advertizing. Family cultures were penetrated and in competition with the “BooB Tude”! Family customs lost the battle against sexual saturation that flooded in on the living room television!!!!
Probably my salvation was the discipline and high standards demanded of me as a Marine and an officer. But I saw it in spades when I returned to the USA in January, 1968.
For Christ sakes, I was only 23 years old and I felt like I was obsolete! I once asked a strange female in the Beeville, Texas O Club if she would allow me to come over and meet her parents in order to go out on a date with her. She immediately went to her girl friends and told them. They laughed their butts off…… I had given her my calling card and I regretted it because I was a “joke”…….
Comment by Colonel Jerry USMC — November 30, 2012 @ 1:18 pm
My advice: never buy crap like this until you talk to both sides.
Comment by SteveHGraham — November 30, 2012 @ 2:07 pm
Read part of an interview with him, and he does take some responsibility; along the lines of “I bought into the ‘let them do their own thing’ crap, and that was a big mistake.” So he doesn’t blame all on them.
He IS right in that it was the societal pressures he bought into that helped lead to this.
Throw in a ‘for instance’; couple of days ago had the tv on for background noise and some rerun of 2 1/2 Men was on. Something caught my attention and I listened a bit, and it hit me that what they were saying, not long ago, would’ve earned a move a ‘R’ rating, yet this is a prime-time tv show.
Amen on the ’68 thing.
Y’know what the counter-culture on campus was back then?
Comment by DougM (Well, thaaat sucked!) — November 30, 2012 @ 3:01 pm
My wife and I, both, in our years before being married had experiences and observations that lead us to the conclusion that public schools were a severe problem. That parents wanting to raise their children properly face an insurmountable mountain of liberal ideology, not just in schools, but in society in general.
When we met, and eventually got married, we made a decision to not have children based on this and several other factors.
One of the best decisions we’ve ever made, in my opinion.
Comment by Caged Insanity — November 30, 2012 @ 3:12 pm
I concur with all the above statements, and yet I hold true that the responsibility falls either on the parents or the offspring. I consider parenthood a fight AGAINST “society”.
Now with this Brit sailor’s situation, I would say that the parent(s) failed to recognize that society was the opposition and allowed society to set their parenting style which allowed society to set their children’s behavior.
A parent must be firmly planted on a solid foundation or the whole family could drift away.
Comment by logdogsmith — December 1, 2012 @ 9:35 am